FrederickCooke:
Hello everyone! Welcome to CuisineNet Live! Tonight we will be chatting with Norman van Aken, chef and owner of Norman's in Miami, radio show host, and cookbook author. Norman is known for starting a revolution in American cooking known as "New World Cuisine" -- the use of haute techniques to prepare the foods of South Florida, the Caribbean, and Latin America.

FrederickCooke:
At the end of tonight's chat we will be giving away three copies of Norman's new cookbook, "Norman's New World Cuisine." Anyone who entered their email address before entering this room is eligible.

FrederickCooke:
Welcome Norman! Everybody ask away!

Brendan:
What exactly is South Florida/New World cuisine?

Norman Van Aken:
It's kind of a celebration of the multiculturalism of South Florida, on a plate (or in a bowl, or in a glass, or in a cup....)

Norman Van Aken:
If you go to New Orleans, you go to The Place for New Orleans food -- you go to Emeril's in New Orleans, because you want the taste of New Orleans. I want Norman's to be the taste of South Florida -- in the present sense -- which really means the Caribbean, South America, Central America, some of the mother countries to these places. And with me, additionally, a touch of Asia.

Widmerpool:
I'm curious about your biography. How difficult is the transition from 'short-order' cook to a more ambitious career? It seems rather untraditional.

Norman Van Aken:
How difficult? Hm. Being a short-order cook appealed to me as a writer. I loved being in the world, with the jargon and the phraseology and the, I don't know, the drama that it had. It was a familial, neighborhood act unfolding all the time. I didn't feel like I was going to be a chef at that time, I thought I was going to be a writer -- But I did respect the honesty and simplicity, perhaps, of the food.

And I was 19 at the time, so I was fascinated by the idea of "work." What is Work? What is The American Job? I thought it was cool, like, "wow, this is my job." I was in love with the idea of doing my job. I bought a car for 100 bucks. I called it "baby cakes." And I could pay for my first speeding ticket. I was going down a hill -- believe me, I could never have gotten a speeding ticket otherwise. And I was kind of like, "Up yours, officer, I can pay for this because I have a JOB."

So the idea of a job was a ticket outta here. I was living in a little town in the Midwest. I worked there six months, and saved up, and then I went to Key West. My short order days didn't end then, though. They sort of continued in Key West.

There's a lot of songs that have been written about these things, but the transition, I was grounded in the middle-class thing that work was a noble profession -- but I was also a dreamy person that really wanted to succeed in an art form. And I found this connection with chefs, and I kind of loved where I lived, but I wanted to cook like they cooked.

And there was no one around me that had aspirations to having a 3-star restaurant in this funky, artist, escapist, psychological cul-de-sac. (That's paraphrasing a Tom Waits song.)

Gary:
Hi Norman -- I had your food once in 1993 when you were still at A Mano. It was the best meal I ate in Miami. Tell me what differences, if any, between what you cooked then and now at Norman's.

Norman Van Aken:
Gary: Well, I mean I'd say two things. The cooking has gotten gutsier, and the restaurant is a lot more fun and it's a total package now. I was the chef of A Mano, but not responsible for the totality as much -- but now as owner, I'm responsible for service, everything. It's all just exactly as I want it to be.

Miranda:
I heard the term "mango gang" in reference to Florida chefs. Who are/were they? And do you have to wear a special bandanna to join?

pinky:
Miranda, I think you have to wear red/green and orange reversible bandanna to join the gang!!!!

Norman Van Aken:
Yeah, left pocket, rear. The mango gang was myself, Douglas Rodriguez (now of Patria), Alan Susser), and Mark Militello). That was the hardcore gang. You know, like you have the Beatles, and then others are the fifth Beatle, the sixth Beatle ... We're the Beatles, and there are others, but that was the group that broke open the idea of the sort of cooking that I named "New World."

pinky:
Norman, why did you decide to include the Asian flavor to your new world cooking?

Norman Van Aken:
I live in Hawaii for a while -- and actually one of the few chefs that was a mentor to me was Tokio Suyehara. He was Japanese. I was probably around 19 or 20, and he was a chef that was my boss and taught me how to cook a lot of things. He was very, very eastern in a very western place, and I was very struck by his wild, true style. What he did -- he'd go out in the yard and collect dandelion shoots and make a salad, this was back in 1971, and I was like, "Wow, that's not iceberg lettuce." So the Asian influence came from that experience. And also, the weather in South Florida reacts very well with the Asian tonality of flavors.

susan herskowitz:
Do you have aspirations of opening restaurants in other cities and is that managable?

Miranda:
Yes, have you considered opening a restaurant in Chicago?

Norman Van Aken:
If the deal were absolutely the best deal for our group. But we cannot compromise what we have built here.

Gary:
Which chefs influenced you most when you were starting out ?

Norman Van Aken:
Other chefs definitely influenced me in terms of their work, but I am self-taught, so it was primarily other chefs through their cookbooks: Roger Vergè, Michel Guerard, Paula Wolfert, Alice Waters, Ken Hom. They were very strong early influences. As were food writers like MFK Fisher.

Miranda:
Norman, I saw in one article where you were voted "most healthful chef," but no way are the Ropa Vieja in your cookbook "healthful." How do you strike a balance?

Norman Van Aken:
I think the balance is struck in terms of the influences that drive cuisine. With Caribbean and Asian flavors being the real twin engines for what I do, I feel there is an amazing breadth and depth of opportunity to derive inspiration from these cuisines -- which are lower on the food chain and not dependent on the richness of cream and butter and the rarefied meats. This allows my cuisine the full panoply of opportunity. l don't deny that the Ropa Vieja is an amazingly rich dish, but I like to serve it in nearly minuscule portions, so it's a minuscule bite. In my cookbook, I didn't present it that way -- but in the restaurant, we'd present it in the context of a degustation menu, which means that in an 8-course menu the Ropa Vieja could maybe be two ounces in total serving size.

wlivesley:
I lived in Bogota, Colombia for a while. Do you serve any Colombian dishes at your restaurant? Do you have any favorite Colombian foods?

Norman Van Aken:
Arepa!

Norman Van Aken:
Those things are like pizzas in a way. You just go crazy eating them.

Gary:
Speaking of arepas -- quite a while back, I saw you go against Doug Rodriguez on Ready, Set, Cook ... only saw one episode, what was the final score ?

Norman Van Aken:
3 to 2, Norman to Douglas. I won.

Savoy:
What do you think of the swordfish boycott? What about sustainable cuisine in general?

Norman Van Aken:
I think the swordfish boycott -- we're a big supporter of that, and we're one of the restaurants that's been listed in Time and other magazines about the boycott. And I know about it firsthand, because when I was in Key West, I saw conch go the way swordfish is currently going. I think sustainable sources -- like Buckminster Fuller said, with his idea of Spaceship Earth -- we've come to know in our lifetime that we can't just rake in without expectations of the time when we're going to need to plant and seed. So I think one of the greatest lessons, greatest awarenesses that chefs can present to -- if not their guests, at least other chefs -- is the idea of working within the fragile sphere of our ecological realities.